On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:29:09 -0400, Daniel Bastos wrote:

> I myself wouldn't really, in this context, distinguish private from
> public, though. 

The private/public distinction is an important one.  In a private 
Catholic school, such behaviour might be encouraged, and people bringing 
in fliers promoting Judaism would probably be a bad idea - not from an 
educational standpoint, but from a religious standpoint.  As a religious 
institution, a Catholic school should have the right to dictate (within 
certain limits, perhaps) what is and isn't appropriate.

> It's about education. Let me argue from an even tougher
> perspect: family. If your parents are oppressing you, I think it kinda
> is my business too. It's true that there may be virtually nothing I can
> do about it, because I will not intervene in your family life in order
> to do what I think is best.

Other people's family relationships are generally not a good idea to get 
into the middle of.  If parents are "oppressing" (do you really know what 
oppression is?  Because while many teenagers *think* they're oppressed, 
they're not) a kid, and I mean *really* oppressing them, then it's time 
for the family court to get involved, not for nosy neighbors to get 
involved.

> And if I ever do intervene, then it is my responsibility to show
> beforehand that an intervention is indeed required, and I should get
> approval from others. There is, in fact, a formal way of doing that:
> calling the police, for example. That is, we hand to the state the task
> of intervening.
> 
> Sometimes this can be justified. For example, if your parents beat you
> up violently, regularly, I think that most people will agree that an
> intervention is justifiable. So, if a private school is oppressing
> people, I think it is people's business too. But there are Good and Bad
> ways of doing something about that.

Sure, but that's not "oppression" - that's abuse.  And there are specific 
laws in the US that cover what must be done when abuse is suspected, 
especially by teachers and people in a position of authority.

> I'm not saying you are against any of this. It just came to mind as you
> begin to distinguish between public and private schools on free speech.

A private school is a venue funded privately, and the people who provide 
that private funding have complete authority to decide what is and isn't 
appropriate.  The first amendment is about free speech in public spaces, 
not in private spaces.

Thus, if I invite you into my home, I am allowed to set the tone for 
discourse.  If you violate my house rules, I am within my rights to (a) 
ask you to leave, (b) insist that you leave, and (c) remove you from my 
home by force if necessary (including calling the police to have you 
removed).  So, for example, I would not allow someone to remain into my 
home who, after a period of time, demonstrates that they are a total 
racist.  Not acceptable in my book, and not acceptable in my home.  Your 
free speech rights do not trump my rights to be in control of my private 
property.

>>> Now I want to question the framework of the discussion. Why is a (six
>>> year old?) kid interested in Jesus? Suppose you find an answer here by
>>> talking to his family. Then you go ``aha.'' And that is why I don't
>>> allow adults doing propaganda in my school. Home is just another
>>> school; only more important.
>>
>> Where he got his interest is irrelevant.  We all learn from our
>> families and our friends.  So what?  The reason the kid is exercising
>> his free speech is not important.  He should be allowed to do so, as
>> long as he's not disruptive or inciting people to harm others.
> 
> The paragraph I wrote has nothing to do with free speech, actually. I
> changed the subject. ``Now I want to question the framework...'' This
> sometimes falls outside the scope.

Perhaps, but as I said, the reason for his interest isn't really 
relevant.  It's an interest of his, for whatever reason.  You tied it 
back to free speech by at least implying that the right to exercise free 
speech shouldn't be allowed if it's done by proxy.  I don't think that 
matters.

Jim

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